UPDATE: I was just reflecting on the title of this blog and when I first started it, I was referring to the ignorance of others. I did not expect that my own ignorance would also be included. When I wrote this post, I was in a different place emotionally and spiritually. I was angry with the positions I was hearing about the Church that did not conform to what I had been taught and had come to believe and so I began this blog from a position of defense and anger and that is never a good place to begin trying to share truth with others. I must first apologize for any hardships I may have caused with this blog in general and this post specifically. I have recently come to understand, and I'm sorry I didn't recognize this sooner (although maybe I did, as I explain a little in this post, and I just got caught up in what the Church and the Gospel had to offer me), that the Church is full of mixed messages. For the purposes of this post I will just focus on women and the priesthood. Church leaders teach that women are the greatest of all of God's creations and that they are to be protected and honored. This sounds great and I don't think that anyone disbelieves the sentiment that is intended by these teachings, however, the reality is the structure of the Church does not reflect the teaching. Women are reminded at least on a weekly basis that men are the leaders and even the Relief Society remains under the purview of a man. I am only writing this to share my new understanding and not to bash the Church, but the institutionalized prejudice that exists in the Church is a constant reminder to those who are aware, that women are not appreciated as much as is taught. Whether the structure is divine or not does not change the fact that women see the same biases, with which they are confronted everyday, in the one place they are supposed to be able to find peace and rest from the storms of the world. I still believe in the divine nature of the priesthood because I have witnessed its power firsthand. I have no answers to what needs to change to make things better, because I am not about to dictate to God what He should do. However, it seems to me an all loving Heavenly Father would be able to recognize and alleviate the pains that His Church causes many of His children on a daily or weekly basis. When the sanctuary becomes the oppressor, it can no longer be called a sanctuary, no matter how divine!
I apologize for the outrageous title, but I like it because it can be interpreted in very different ways. I have a feeling that many people think the LDS Church and Mormon men are out to put women in a position of lesser status and subjection. In myth #4 of the article that urged me to start this blog, which is entitled Mormon women are second-class citizens, the author writes: "It is true that mainstream Mormonism does not accord women equal status with men." She proceeds to demonstrate this by referring to the hierarchy of the Church and claiming that all "clerical, institutional and fiscal authority" is completely male. She also discusses how women cannot hold the priesthood that boys, once they turn 12, and men in the Church can possess. If you look at the Church as a corporation that should legally offer equal opportunity to all those who apply, work, and are promoted there, this author is correct in assessing that women are not treated equally. Luckily, the Church is not a corporation as it pertains to the spiritual nature of the organization. The Church certainly has a business side to it and both men and women are employed by the Church. There are also many women that have supervisory positions over men in this capacity. However, since the Church as an employer is not the focus of the article or of what people think about the Church when considering the role/place of women within the Church, I will stop here with any further mention of employment.
Returning back to the claims made by Joanna Brooks, the author of the article I'm referencing, she doesn't understand the structure of the Church in my opinion. It is true that the hierarchy of the Church is based around the priesthood and that priesthood offices are held by men. I understand the issue for those who are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, because to them the organization is man made and under such direction there is clear sexism at play. However, for those who believe in the doctrines of the LDS Church, the organization is divinely appointed by Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. I have to admit, when I was learning about the Church, one of the issues I had was the inability of women to hold the priesthood. I think women are more spiritually in tune and far stronger than men in most aspects of life. However, I witnessed the priesthood in action and had an indescribable experience that convinced me of the power of the priesthood and I no longer doubted its organization or its origin. What I have come to understand is women in general are closer to spiritual things than men and women are able to bring to pass great things based on their faith alone, where as men require the priesthood to bring them closer to spiritual matters and to accomplish similar things as women. Unfortunately, people consider the priesthood the ultimate prize or status and distort what it is all about.
The priesthood is not about obtaining glory and fame through possible callings in the priesthood. The sole purpose for the priesthood is to come to the aid of others. Of course there are men in the Church who aspire to what one might consider a great calling like bishop, stake president, mission president, or apostle, but these men as misguided and do not understand the priesthood. There is no higher glory that one can receive if one is an apostle as opposed to a greeter at the door to the chapel. Those who think differently are deluded and will probably fall away from the Church at some point in their lives. Those men and women who don't understand that the priesthood is solely a power of service will never grasp why both sexes don't hold it.
The Relief Society of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the oldest and largest women's service organization in the world. The plain truth is that women in general have a greater disposition to provide service to others and they don't require the priesthood to motivate them in this manner. Men have the priesthood so that they have to be of service and learn of the spiritual blessings that come from selflessly giving of one's time and talents to help those in need. Are men and women created equal? Of course not, but that doesn't make one gender better than the other. There is no disputing that there are fundamental differences between men and women, both physical and emotional. This world would be a horrid place if we were all the same. The gospel of Jesus Christ and the teachings of the prophets and apostles inform us that woman, not man, is God's greatest creation. President Gordon B. Hinckley of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints described women as follows: "Woman is God’s supreme creation. Only after the earth had been formed, after the day had been separated from the night, after the waters had been divided from the land, after vegetation and animal life had been created, and after man had been placed on the earth, was woman created; and only then was the work pronounced complete and good."
Ms. Brooks also mentions how men "preside" over their families and believes this to be sexist. What she has clearly misunderstood, is that presiding does not mean that the man has the final say on all issues in the family. When a man and a woman are married in the temple they are both joined together in the patriarchal order of the priesthood, which is the highest level of priesthood that anyone on the earth can obtain. It is impossible to receive it alone, it must be received as a man and a woman are sealed together in matrimony in the temple. The woman shares in this priesthood, which is used to govern and bless one's household and family. Both husband and wife are to discuss all the issues of the house together and to come to a decision on how to proceed. The husband's role of presiding is to make sure that this counseling with his wife occurs and that what they decide through discussion and prayer is implemented. Again, there are men who believe that because they hold the priesthood and are to preside over their families that they can do whatever they want and make their wives and children submissive to their own will. This is a direct violation of the priesthood and in the Doctrine and Covenants (one of the books in the LDS scriptural cannon) section 121:34-46 we read:
34 Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?
Ms. Brooks and her "Mormon feminists" reject the priesthood as it is constituted, but then she must reject the entire Church for the priesthood is the power and authority of God used to organize the Church. There is no Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints without the priesthood and there is no point in treasuring up aspects of the Church that are pleasing to one's conscious if one flatly rejects the fundamental principles of its doctrine. I have a feeling Ms. Brooks needs to study her religion more carefully before she makes more comments that actually negate her beliefs. I would also entreat anyone who reads this and questions what I have said about the priesthood to seek out opportunities to see the priesthood in action and find out if it is truly divine, which I believe it is, or if it is another oppressive creation of man. Finally, I would like to reiterate that a woman's place in the Church and in life is at the highest station, because she is a daughter of God and she should be treated as such!
I apologize for the outrageous title, but I like it because it can be interpreted in very different ways. I have a feeling that many people think the LDS Church and Mormon men are out to put women in a position of lesser status and subjection. In myth #4 of the article that urged me to start this blog, which is entitled Mormon women are second-class citizens, the author writes: "It is true that mainstream Mormonism does not accord women equal status with men." She proceeds to demonstrate this by referring to the hierarchy of the Church and claiming that all "clerical, institutional and fiscal authority" is completely male. She also discusses how women cannot hold the priesthood that boys, once they turn 12, and men in the Church can possess. If you look at the Church as a corporation that should legally offer equal opportunity to all those who apply, work, and are promoted there, this author is correct in assessing that women are not treated equally. Luckily, the Church is not a corporation as it pertains to the spiritual nature of the organization. The Church certainly has a business side to it and both men and women are employed by the Church. There are also many women that have supervisory positions over men in this capacity. However, since the Church as an employer is not the focus of the article or of what people think about the Church when considering the role/place of women within the Church, I will stop here with any further mention of employment.
Returning back to the claims made by Joanna Brooks, the author of the article I'm referencing, she doesn't understand the structure of the Church in my opinion. It is true that the hierarchy of the Church is based around the priesthood and that priesthood offices are held by men. I understand the issue for those who are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, because to them the organization is man made and under such direction there is clear sexism at play. However, for those who believe in the doctrines of the LDS Church, the organization is divinely appointed by Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. I have to admit, when I was learning about the Church, one of the issues I had was the inability of women to hold the priesthood. I think women are more spiritually in tune and far stronger than men in most aspects of life. However, I witnessed the priesthood in action and had an indescribable experience that convinced me of the power of the priesthood and I no longer doubted its organization or its origin. What I have come to understand is women in general are closer to spiritual things than men and women are able to bring to pass great things based on their faith alone, where as men require the priesthood to bring them closer to spiritual matters and to accomplish similar things as women. Unfortunately, people consider the priesthood the ultimate prize or status and distort what it is all about.
The priesthood is not about obtaining glory and fame through possible callings in the priesthood. The sole purpose for the priesthood is to come to the aid of others. Of course there are men in the Church who aspire to what one might consider a great calling like bishop, stake president, mission president, or apostle, but these men as misguided and do not understand the priesthood. There is no higher glory that one can receive if one is an apostle as opposed to a greeter at the door to the chapel. Those who think differently are deluded and will probably fall away from the Church at some point in their lives. Those men and women who don't understand that the priesthood is solely a power of service will never grasp why both sexes don't hold it.
The Relief Society of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the oldest and largest women's service organization in the world. The plain truth is that women in general have a greater disposition to provide service to others and they don't require the priesthood to motivate them in this manner. Men have the priesthood so that they have to be of service and learn of the spiritual blessings that come from selflessly giving of one's time and talents to help those in need. Are men and women created equal? Of course not, but that doesn't make one gender better than the other. There is no disputing that there are fundamental differences between men and women, both physical and emotional. This world would be a horrid place if we were all the same. The gospel of Jesus Christ and the teachings of the prophets and apostles inform us that woman, not man, is God's greatest creation. President Gordon B. Hinckley of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints described women as follows: "Woman is God’s supreme creation. Only after the earth had been formed, after the day had been separated from the night, after the waters had been divided from the land, after vegetation and animal life had been created, and after man had been placed on the earth, was woman created; and only then was the work pronounced complete and good."
Ms. Brooks also mentions how men "preside" over their families and believes this to be sexist. What she has clearly misunderstood, is that presiding does not mean that the man has the final say on all issues in the family. When a man and a woman are married in the temple they are both joined together in the patriarchal order of the priesthood, which is the highest level of priesthood that anyone on the earth can obtain. It is impossible to receive it alone, it must be received as a man and a woman are sealed together in matrimony in the temple. The woman shares in this priesthood, which is used to govern and bless one's household and family. Both husband and wife are to discuss all the issues of the house together and to come to a decision on how to proceed. The husband's role of presiding is to make sure that this counseling with his wife occurs and that what they decide through discussion and prayer is implemented. Again, there are men who believe that because they hold the priesthood and are to preside over their families that they can do whatever they want and make their wives and children submissive to their own will. This is a direct violation of the priesthood and in the Doctrine and Covenants (one of the books in the LDS scriptural cannon) section 121:34-46 we read:
34 Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?
35 Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson—
36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.
37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.
38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.
39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.
41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;
45 Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.
46 The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever.
Ms. Brooks and her "Mormon feminists" reject the priesthood as it is constituted, but then she must reject the entire Church for the priesthood is the power and authority of God used to organize the Church. There is no Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints without the priesthood and there is no point in treasuring up aspects of the Church that are pleasing to one's conscious if one flatly rejects the fundamental principles of its doctrine. I have a feeling Ms. Brooks needs to study her religion more carefully before she makes more comments that actually negate her beliefs. I would also entreat anyone who reads this and questions what I have said about the priesthood to seek out opportunities to see the priesthood in action and find out if it is truly divine, which I believe it is, or if it is another oppressive creation of man. Finally, I would like to reiterate that a woman's place in the Church and in life is at the highest station, because she is a daughter of God and she should be treated as such!
i have often said, Mr Card, that women do not need the title of Priest because the already have the God given virtues which it evokes, such as charity, service, compassion etc. I feel those that want the Priesthood, are selling themselves short. Men of the LDS church need the title as a reminder to who and what they are. Interesting isn't it?
ReplyDeleteI have more to say on this topic than will fit here. :) I started typing it up, but it's seriously longer than your original post, and I'm only half done. I really have to go to bed now, but I'll try to finish it up soon and send it to you for your perusal. I always love hearing your thoughts, and I'm totally with you on this one.
ReplyDeleteThis post made me wish I could sit down with you for a cup of coffee or something and have an actual conversation, because I think this one requires more dialogue than a "post and response" allows.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, as someone who is not a member of the LDS church, I feel I have to be very very careful because I don't want my words to be interpreted incorrectly. I do not at all intend to pick apart your religion or your beliefs. But I'm not sure I'm understanding what it is you are saying. (this is why conversation beats posting.)
First of all, to clarify, you say in the second paragraph (ironically talking about how non-members view the church) that if the setup of the church - the doctrines - were created by man, then it would be sexist, but since it's divinely appointed, then it's OK? It's fine if this is what you believe, but I just wanted to make sure that's what you were saying.
Next, you say that men need the priesthood to be spiritual and be of service, but women do not, because they are already that way. Is this what you are saying? Because I agree that men and women are different, but I also think that each man and each woman are different, and that perhaps there are men who are innately spiritual and find ways to be of service to others as well as women who might benefit from something with a bit more structure to help them out. I'm not sure than making a clean division between men and women would be the answer. Of course, if this is one of the basics of your faith, as it is actually in many faiths, then that comes first.
Finally, I really do appreciate your posting on this issue. It's a bit of a hot button issue for me, so I have to try really hard not to over react. But I think the real issue is not what the men are supposed to so as they "preside" over their families. The issue is, when you get a man who takes advantage of that situation and does not consult with his wife, who does take on a dominant role and sees her as submissive, what can she do about it? Does she have any alternative when she disagrees with her "presiding" husband? What options does she then have?
Sorry to spit this all out. I feel like I'm shouting and running, and I don't mean to do that at all. (urg!) You can ignore me if you like, or email me or just post responses in a comment - I'll check them.
Hi Kathleen,
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for submitting a comment. You are right, an actual face-to-face to discuss this and other issues is far better. I wish I were in NH right now so that we could do just that. I know you do not want to offend anyone with your comments and I don't think that it is possible for you to do that. You are being honest with your thoughts and beliefs and expressing them. Please don't feel like you have to not say something, because you think you will offend. The truth is, people are not offended by others, but they choose to be offended. Since I don't like how that feels, I never choose to be offended.
I realize that by trying to keep my posts detailed enough to convey my point, but short enough to keep the readers' interest, there is a great possibility of being misunderstood. For this reason, I am grateful when people like you post comments so that I can clarify my points if I have assumed something that isn't clear.
First, it was not my intent to say that it is OK for the Church organization to be sexist because it is divine. That was not my intent at all. What I was trying to convey was my understanding how those external to the Church could believe that the organization is sexist, because the majority of administrative roles are held by men. I spent a great deal of this post discussing the priesthood because it is essential to understanding why the organization of the Church is the way it is.
You are certainly right that there are men that are super spiritual and service minded and women who are not, but I would say if we were to generalize between the two sexes, women would be classified as more spiritual and willing to give of themselves than men are. I obviously have no collected data on this, but I speak from what I have witnessed and experienced in my life.
The issue of submissiveness is a hard one. Unfortunately, sexism has ruled many societies for centuries and it has not been eradicated from ours. It is a sad reality that there are men out there within and without the Church that treat the women in their lives as less than their equals. Marriage is such an important aspect of the LDS faith that divorce is not an initial counsel. If women in the Church find themselves in such a situation, they should talk with their Church leaders about the situation and get advice from them and help. Couples should enter counseling together and it is necessary for the man to truly learn of his role as a priesthood holder through counseling with his priesthood leaders. If the relationship is abusive, the woman has no obligation to remain and should get out of such a relationship for her own protection and that of her children if there children involved. It is so hard to give general counsel on this issue because every situation is different and must be treated accordingly.
Finally, what I do want to say is that I believe that the men in the Church who act like they have dominion over their wives and family would probably act this way if they were not members of the Church. I do not believe that the Church organization or doctrine creates men like this. I actually believe the teachings of the Church help build more equal relationships than the ones that develop based on being raised in our current society. Men in the Church are taught about their duty to their wives and children, not their dominion over them, and they are frequently cautioned about letting the evils of the world penetrate the walls of their homes.
I hoped this helped some. I'm not sure I responded to everything, so if you have any more questions or comments, please feel free to share them.
Thank you! This does make sense to me. I also think you are right- men who choose to act like tyrants will act like tyrants regardless. I can't see that the church would "make them that way."
ReplyDeleteA note on being offended: I like your attitude! I wish I could be that way, choosing not to be offended. I'll give it a try!
Great post Chad! I think on the issue of what we refer to as "unrighteous dominion" or in other words, a husband using his role as priesthood holder as an excuse to dominate his wife, I think President of the Church Gordon B. Hinkley said it best.
ReplyDelete"The wife you choose will be your equal. Paul declared, “Neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord” (1 Cor. 11:11).
In the marriage companionship there is neither inferiority nor superiority. The woman does not walk ahead of the man; neither does the man walk ahead of the woman. They walk side by side as a son and daughter of God on an eternal journey.
She is not your servant, your chattel, nor anything of the kind.
How tragic and utterly disgusting a phenomenon is wife abuse. Any man in this Church who abuses his wife, who demeans her, who insults her, who exercises unrighteous dominion over her is unworthy to hold the priesthood. Though he may have been ordained, the heavens will withdraw, the Spirit of the Lord will be grieved, and it will be amen to the authority of the priesthood of that man.
Any man who engages in this practice is unworthy to hold a temple recommend."
In my opinion, the real tragedy over the last hundred years or so is the denigration and decline of the status of women. In the past, women were revered and treated with the utmost respect. We had them on a pedestal. Unfortunately, they mistook this for misogyny and demanded they be brought DOWN to our level. I believe men held their places in society because we are the simpler sex. It was beneath women to wallow in the mud with us as protectors and providers. I believe that women do not hold the priesthood because they simply don't need it. It's just sad to see that women no longer command the same respect and reverence that they had had for thousands of years.