From the Book of Mormon: Alma 7:10-13
10 And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.
Are Mormons Christians? This has been a question that has graced the titles of books and newscasts for many years, especially with the presidential campaigns of Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman, Jr. I understand the public interest and the desire to know the answer to this question, because the US was built upon Christian principles. Some may argue against this and say that Thomas Jefferson wasn't a Christian (which is not true, he didn't agree with some of the teachings of the Bible or different religious sects, but he still followed the teachings of Christ,) but the bulk of the evidence indicates the Founding Fathers were practicing Christians and the country they helped to shape was built upon moral principles derived from their beliefs. Even if this is all false, it is what most of us have been taught since we were young and it continues to provide an undercurrent for our perceptions, especially when it comes to electing a president. If this were not true, candidates would not make such a point to proclaim their belief in God and their strong Christian values.
I'm sorry, this was a long-winded way of saying that although we are a secular nation, we are also a nation that has strong religious beliefs and we as a nation make strong judgments based on what other people believe and how diligently they live according to those beliefs. From what I've witnessed, Americans are OK with people who are religious as long as they aren't too religious. They are also OK with people who don't believe in God as long as those people don't try to take God out of everything. What we have is a nation that hates religious extremes because we find our independence and individuality (that we are taught throughout our lives) challenged by the extremes and we don't like it. We also find the extremists dangerous and there is plenty of evidence to support our fears. What we as humans are so good at doing is creating categories by which we organize our world and religion is no exception to this rule. We have internal checklists that let us know what type of label we place on people, which ultimately determines what type of interaction we will have with the individuals who enter into our lives.
So, what does this have to do with answering the question posed in the title of this post? It has quite a bit to do with it. The term Mormon is a label and it conjures up images for us when we read or hear it. Those who aren't Mormon probably first think of polygamy, missionaries who invade their privacy, those weird Utahans, or any number of things that have little to do with what it actually means to be Mormon. However, the labels we create, whether right or wrong, are the ones by which we live. Many have been taught who Mormons are and what they believe and many have also been taught that Mormons are not Christians. Arguments to support this include the Mormon practice of polygamy during the early years of the Church, the use of additional scriptures like the Book of Mormon, and the most common argument is that Mormons do not believe in the same Jesus Christ as the one in whom Christians believe. This is the argument on which I am going to base the rest of this post.
Satan
Yesterday, I made mention of an article and the subsequent comments that prompted me to write this blog. Username blert posted a comment that reads:
"The answer to the question of whether Mormons or Christians is by far the worst here. Mormons, including the author here, like to claim that they are Christians because they use the name of Christ. However, I can say that I am a dog-owner because I call my pet a dog, any actual dog-owner would look upon me with a bizarre expression and note that what I call a dog is actually a guppy. What Mormons call "Jesus Christ" does not remotely correspond with the Jesus Christ that Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant Christians worship. The Mormon Jesus is the brother of Satan and, in essence, of all of us because the "Heavenly Father" begat all of us, with the Mormon Jesus as his firstborn, in the celestial realm, with the job on earth now to give bodies to these celestially birthed beings. Sorry, but this isn't how Christians describe God or Jesus whatsoever. They can use the same names, but this doesn't mean that they are talking about the same thing, and it doesn't make them "Christians" in any orthodox or theological sense of the term." (I made no changes to the post so any errors are those of the original author).
Username blert is right about one thing, Catholics, Orthodox Christians and Protestants do not often teach that Satan was a son of God and a brother to Christ and the rest of us. Most Christian churches don't teach much or anything at all about what life was like before this earthly life, because the Bible doesn't really say much about it, which makes it hard to teach about. However, just because it doesn't say much about it, doesn't mean it isn't real or there. When I was in high school, I was never taught about antimatter in my chemistry and physics classes, because at that time it was not well documented. Does that make the most recent reports about an antimatter belt around the earth science fiction, because I was never taught it in school? Of course it doesn't, but it does mean I need to adjust my perceptions of the universe. Just because Mormons propose Jesus Christ had a brother named Lucifer, who later became known as Satan after his rebellion, this does not change the character of Jesus Christ, but adds something that people might not have heard before or considered. If we look at a few scriptures from the Bible, we will see that their is evidence for this belief. In Isaiah 14:12 (the King James version) we read:
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
I'm sure I will have a post solely about Mormon beliefs on the fall of Lucifer and the pre-mortal life, so I will not analyze the surrounding verses here. From this verse, we learn that Lucifer was once in heaven. He didn't infiltrate heaven or attack it from hell, but he actually lived in heaven and was considered the "son of the morning." Does this mean he was God's son, not necessarily, but reason should tell us this. Christians believe that Christ was the son of God, they also believe that people on earth are the sons and daughters of God and if they don't they haven't read Romans 8:16-17, which states:
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children of God, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Now, if we are children of God, and Christ is a child of God, it makes sense that Lucifer, who lived in heaven with God and was the son of the morning, was also a son of God, which makes him a brother to Christ and us all. Revelation 12:8 also tells us that after the war with Michael in heaven, "neither was their place found any more in heaven," which confirms Lucifer/Satan lived in heaven before he rebelled and was cast out. I think the greatest fear Christians have about believing that Satan is a child of God is understanding how a perfect being like God could create an atrocity like Satan. People almost have to believe that Satan and God have always existed in their respective forms of evil and good, which these scriptures show is not the case. Does this delegitimize the the goodness and greatness of God or Jesus Christ? No! There are many parents and siblings in this world and throughout time that were good, but who had a child or sibling become a person that we might label as evil. Does this make the parents or siblings evil by association? Again, the answer is no!
Jesus Christ
Username blert never managed to really say what Mormons believe about Christ himself and that is the basis for him saying Mormons are not Christians. I will share with you what Mormons believe about Jesus Christ and you can answer the question for yourselves.
Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the child of Mary--born in Bethlehem in the most humble of circumstances. We believe he was raised by Mary and Joseph, that he taught scholars in the temple when he was a young boy, that Satan tried to tempt him and failed, that he called people to follow him who later became his apostles, that he healed the sick, the blind, the deaf and cast out demons. We believe Christ taught the principles of salvation and helped us understand our purpose in the eyes of God. We also believe that their were many in Jerusalem and the surrounding areas who were threatened by Jesus and did all they could to persecute him and bring him to his death, which happened on a cross at Golgotha on Calvary. We also believe that after he was entombed for three days, he was resurrected and showed himself unto his followers and he later ascended into heaven. The death and resurrection of Christ broke the bonds of sin and death and made it possible for all of us to find forgiveness from God for our weaknesses and to return to Him in heaven. To a Christian and to those familiar with Christianity, this should all sound familiar. All I have done here is summarized the life of Christ as we read about it in the New Testament of the Bible and THIS is what we as Mormons believe about Jesus Christ.
Do we believe that Christ also appeared to people in other parts of the world after his resurrection and ascension into heaven? The answer to this is yes, but does that mean we believe in a completely different Christ? If people can be considered Christians, who see an image of Christ on a Walmart receipt or a statue of Mary crying, I don't understand why it is so impossible to consider people, who believe Christ appeared to other people around the world as we read in the Book of Mormon, Christians. I understand the information might be new, but it doesn't change the character of Jesus Christ. If He is really the Savior of the World, which I believe He is, doesn't it make sense that He would manifest Himself to the world once He was no longer constrained by a mortal body? It makes perfect sense to me. I have heard many people say that the ways of God are mysterious and we can't understand them. This is often used to describe the idea of the Trinity--God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost as three entities encompassed in one being. Because Mormons believe that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are individual and separate beings, we are considered heretics and obviously do not worship the same God or believe in the same Christ. Again, I don't understand how this is so. I know personally, when I was a Congregationalist, I could never understand how three beings could be one and the same, especially when the Bible often refers to them separately at the same time.
Now, are Mormons right because our concept of God, at least to me, is more logical? Or are Catholics and Protestants right because the inability to comprehend God's nature proves that He is far greater than us all? My real question is: Is it worth getting caught up in these technicalities to the exclusion of possibly being able to help each other learn more about God, our Savior Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost? I hope not! We are all in this mortal journey together in one way or another and I think what truly makes someone a Christian is if one lives by the principles Christ taught. Do the small technical differences of my beliefs disqualify me as a Christian even if I live according to the teachings of Christ? If we look at an analogy we can find the answer. Our differences don't make us more or less human than another, it is both our differences and our similarities that make us human. Certain core elements have to exist for us to be considered scientifically human, but once an entity is found in possession of those elements, no differences can disqualify one from being human. The same goes for being a Christian--there are certain core elements that are required to be a Christian. Someone who doesn't believe in God or Jesus Christ for example cannot be considered a Christian even if one lives by Christian principles, because a belief in God and Christ are fundamental aspects of Christianity. However, does it make someone not a Christian if one believes Christ turned water into wine, but didn't drink it as opposed to one who believes he did both? I don't actually believe Christ didn't drink wine, but I am using this example to make a point and I hope my point is clear.
I have to apologize for my ramblings. I could have based this entire post on scriptural comparisons and entered into a detailed analysis proving the concept of Jesus, in which Mormons believe, is accurate according to scripture, but that would also require me to prove other people wrong. My purposes again for this blog are not to attack or belittle the beliefs of other faiths, but to clarify and eradicate the ignorance I believe people have about Mormons, our doctrines, and our beliefs. I also ask that you don't take offense to my use of the term ignorance. I use it not as a pejorative, but with its original meaning--lacking knowledge about something. I would like to hear what you think about anything I mentioned in this post.
10 And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.
11 And he shall go forth, suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people.
12 And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.
13 Now the Spirit knoweth all things; nevertheless the Son of God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the sins of his people, that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power of his deliverance; and now behold, this is the testimony which is in me.
Are Mormons Christians? This has been a question that has graced the titles of books and newscasts for many years, especially with the presidential campaigns of Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman, Jr. I understand the public interest and the desire to know the answer to this question, because the US was built upon Christian principles. Some may argue against this and say that Thomas Jefferson wasn't a Christian (which is not true, he didn't agree with some of the teachings of the Bible or different religious sects, but he still followed the teachings of Christ,) but the bulk of the evidence indicates the Founding Fathers were practicing Christians and the country they helped to shape was built upon moral principles derived from their beliefs. Even if this is all false, it is what most of us have been taught since we were young and it continues to provide an undercurrent for our perceptions, especially when it comes to electing a president. If this were not true, candidates would not make such a point to proclaim their belief in God and their strong Christian values.
I'm sorry, this was a long-winded way of saying that although we are a secular nation, we are also a nation that has strong religious beliefs and we as a nation make strong judgments based on what other people believe and how diligently they live according to those beliefs. From what I've witnessed, Americans are OK with people who are religious as long as they aren't too religious. They are also OK with people who don't believe in God as long as those people don't try to take God out of everything. What we have is a nation that hates religious extremes because we find our independence and individuality (that we are taught throughout our lives) challenged by the extremes and we don't like it. We also find the extremists dangerous and there is plenty of evidence to support our fears. What we as humans are so good at doing is creating categories by which we organize our world and religion is no exception to this rule. We have internal checklists that let us know what type of label we place on people, which ultimately determines what type of interaction we will have with the individuals who enter into our lives.
So, what does this have to do with answering the question posed in the title of this post? It has quite a bit to do with it. The term Mormon is a label and it conjures up images for us when we read or hear it. Those who aren't Mormon probably first think of polygamy, missionaries who invade their privacy, those weird Utahans, or any number of things that have little to do with what it actually means to be Mormon. However, the labels we create, whether right or wrong, are the ones by which we live. Many have been taught who Mormons are and what they believe and many have also been taught that Mormons are not Christians. Arguments to support this include the Mormon practice of polygamy during the early years of the Church, the use of additional scriptures like the Book of Mormon, and the most common argument is that Mormons do not believe in the same Jesus Christ as the one in whom Christians believe. This is the argument on which I am going to base the rest of this post.
Satan
Yesterday, I made mention of an article and the subsequent comments that prompted me to write this blog. Username blert posted a comment that reads:
"The answer to the question of whether Mormons or Christians is by far the worst here. Mormons, including the author here, like to claim that they are Christians because they use the name of Christ. However, I can say that I am a dog-owner because I call my pet a dog, any actual dog-owner would look upon me with a bizarre expression and note that what I call a dog is actually a guppy. What Mormons call "Jesus Christ" does not remotely correspond with the Jesus Christ that Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant Christians worship. The Mormon Jesus is the brother of Satan and, in essence, of all of us because the "Heavenly Father" begat all of us, with the Mormon Jesus as his firstborn, in the celestial realm, with the job on earth now to give bodies to these celestially birthed beings. Sorry, but this isn't how Christians describe God or Jesus whatsoever. They can use the same names, but this doesn't mean that they are talking about the same thing, and it doesn't make them "Christians" in any orthodox or theological sense of the term." (I made no changes to the post so any errors are those of the original author).
Username blert is right about one thing, Catholics, Orthodox Christians and Protestants do not often teach that Satan was a son of God and a brother to Christ and the rest of us. Most Christian churches don't teach much or anything at all about what life was like before this earthly life, because the Bible doesn't really say much about it, which makes it hard to teach about. However, just because it doesn't say much about it, doesn't mean it isn't real or there. When I was in high school, I was never taught about antimatter in my chemistry and physics classes, because at that time it was not well documented. Does that make the most recent reports about an antimatter belt around the earth science fiction, because I was never taught it in school? Of course it doesn't, but it does mean I need to adjust my perceptions of the universe. Just because Mormons propose Jesus Christ had a brother named Lucifer, who later became known as Satan after his rebellion, this does not change the character of Jesus Christ, but adds something that people might not have heard before or considered. If we look at a few scriptures from the Bible, we will see that their is evidence for this belief. In Isaiah 14:12 (the King James version) we read:
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
I'm sure I will have a post solely about Mormon beliefs on the fall of Lucifer and the pre-mortal life, so I will not analyze the surrounding verses here. From this verse, we learn that Lucifer was once in heaven. He didn't infiltrate heaven or attack it from hell, but he actually lived in heaven and was considered the "son of the morning." Does this mean he was God's son, not necessarily, but reason should tell us this. Christians believe that Christ was the son of God, they also believe that people on earth are the sons and daughters of God and if they don't they haven't read Romans 8:16-17, which states:
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children of God, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Now, if we are children of God, and Christ is a child of God, it makes sense that Lucifer, who lived in heaven with God and was the son of the morning, was also a son of God, which makes him a brother to Christ and us all. Revelation 12:8 also tells us that after the war with Michael in heaven, "neither was their place found any more in heaven," which confirms Lucifer/Satan lived in heaven before he rebelled and was cast out. I think the greatest fear Christians have about believing that Satan is a child of God is understanding how a perfect being like God could create an atrocity like Satan. People almost have to believe that Satan and God have always existed in their respective forms of evil and good, which these scriptures show is not the case. Does this delegitimize the the goodness and greatness of God or Jesus Christ? No! There are many parents and siblings in this world and throughout time that were good, but who had a child or sibling become a person that we might label as evil. Does this make the parents or siblings evil by association? Again, the answer is no!
Jesus Christ
Username blert never managed to really say what Mormons believe about Christ himself and that is the basis for him saying Mormons are not Christians. I will share with you what Mormons believe about Jesus Christ and you can answer the question for yourselves.
Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the child of Mary--born in Bethlehem in the most humble of circumstances. We believe he was raised by Mary and Joseph, that he taught scholars in the temple when he was a young boy, that Satan tried to tempt him and failed, that he called people to follow him who later became his apostles, that he healed the sick, the blind, the deaf and cast out demons. We believe Christ taught the principles of salvation and helped us understand our purpose in the eyes of God. We also believe that their were many in Jerusalem and the surrounding areas who were threatened by Jesus and did all they could to persecute him and bring him to his death, which happened on a cross at Golgotha on Calvary. We also believe that after he was entombed for three days, he was resurrected and showed himself unto his followers and he later ascended into heaven. The death and resurrection of Christ broke the bonds of sin and death and made it possible for all of us to find forgiveness from God for our weaknesses and to return to Him in heaven. To a Christian and to those familiar with Christianity, this should all sound familiar. All I have done here is summarized the life of Christ as we read about it in the New Testament of the Bible and THIS is what we as Mormons believe about Jesus Christ.
Do we believe that Christ also appeared to people in other parts of the world after his resurrection and ascension into heaven? The answer to this is yes, but does that mean we believe in a completely different Christ? If people can be considered Christians, who see an image of Christ on a Walmart receipt or a statue of Mary crying, I don't understand why it is so impossible to consider people, who believe Christ appeared to other people around the world as we read in the Book of Mormon, Christians. I understand the information might be new, but it doesn't change the character of Jesus Christ. If He is really the Savior of the World, which I believe He is, doesn't it make sense that He would manifest Himself to the world once He was no longer constrained by a mortal body? It makes perfect sense to me. I have heard many people say that the ways of God are mysterious and we can't understand them. This is often used to describe the idea of the Trinity--God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost as three entities encompassed in one being. Because Mormons believe that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are individual and separate beings, we are considered heretics and obviously do not worship the same God or believe in the same Christ. Again, I don't understand how this is so. I know personally, when I was a Congregationalist, I could never understand how three beings could be one and the same, especially when the Bible often refers to them separately at the same time.
Now, are Mormons right because our concept of God, at least to me, is more logical? Or are Catholics and Protestants right because the inability to comprehend God's nature proves that He is far greater than us all? My real question is: Is it worth getting caught up in these technicalities to the exclusion of possibly being able to help each other learn more about God, our Savior Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost? I hope not! We are all in this mortal journey together in one way or another and I think what truly makes someone a Christian is if one lives by the principles Christ taught. Do the small technical differences of my beliefs disqualify me as a Christian even if I live according to the teachings of Christ? If we look at an analogy we can find the answer. Our differences don't make us more or less human than another, it is both our differences and our similarities that make us human. Certain core elements have to exist for us to be considered scientifically human, but once an entity is found in possession of those elements, no differences can disqualify one from being human. The same goes for being a Christian--there are certain core elements that are required to be a Christian. Someone who doesn't believe in God or Jesus Christ for example cannot be considered a Christian even if one lives by Christian principles, because a belief in God and Christ are fundamental aspects of Christianity. However, does it make someone not a Christian if one believes Christ turned water into wine, but didn't drink it as opposed to one who believes he did both? I don't actually believe Christ didn't drink wine, but I am using this example to make a point and I hope my point is clear.
I have to apologize for my ramblings. I could have based this entire post on scriptural comparisons and entered into a detailed analysis proving the concept of Jesus, in which Mormons believe, is accurate according to scripture, but that would also require me to prove other people wrong. My purposes again for this blog are not to attack or belittle the beliefs of other faiths, but to clarify and eradicate the ignorance I believe people have about Mormons, our doctrines, and our beliefs. I also ask that you don't take offense to my use of the term ignorance. I use it not as a pejorative, but with its original meaning--lacking knowledge about something. I would like to hear what you think about anything I mentioned in this post.
Elder Holland gave a beautiful discourse on this very subject, but if i remember correctly, based his conclusions on scripture. I liked the approach you take summarized here: " Is it worth getting caught up in these technicalities to the exclusion of possibly being able to help each other learn more about God, our Savior Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost? " I think that every mormon at one time or another has been told by a fellow person that they did not believe in the same Jesus that they did---I had a Catholic friend in high school that used to always tell me that. It baffled me every time, I mean, didn't we study from the same Bible the life and teachings of Jesus? I think it is an easy excuse used to dismiss any kind of constructive talk on who God actually is, who his son is and who we are in relation to them. If the idea that Jesus is the same for both of us is accepted, it forces the accuser to define who they see Jesus and God the Father as---many cannot answer that question in a definitive way.
ReplyDeleteGreat starting off point.
I enjoyed your post, Chad. I think another question to address is about salvation and Christianity. At least, some people have asked whether Mormons are Christians because of our different beliefs on how to receive salvation through Christ. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and testimony!
ReplyDeleteI think the central issue raised in blert's comment is the construct of "Christ". How does one define or operationalize that construct? Based solely on what is explicitly stated about Him in a particular translation of the Bible? Including the decisions of the Council of Nicea? Or some other criteria?
ReplyDeleteFrom a linguistic standpoint, you could see the issue in terms of what is included in the semantics of the word "Christ." (And "Christian," for that matter.) It may be that in blert's lexicon, the semantic entry for "Christ" includes (as a requisite element) the idea of physical oneness with the Father. Thus, if being "Christian" means believing in "Christ," and "Christ" is inherently defined as being physically one with the Father, anyone whose semantic entry for "Christ" specifies the opposite (that "Christ" is physically distinct from the Father) is not a "Christian." In other words, if being Christian means having a lexical entry including [+physical oneness], then an entry with [-phyiscal oneness] instead is not only different from, it is directly contrary to, the notion of being Christian.
Put more simply, Americans may refer to the greasy lump of goo in a Domino's box as pizza, but to me, that is NOT pizza. My notion of what "pizza" means is very different.
I would be interested to hear how blert defines Christ and what, in his or her mind, qualifies one as a Christian or not. That might go a long way toward bridging the gap of understanding.
Constructs, semantics, etc. are tricky things, and they can really pit us against each other.
And I'm rambling. :) The end.
Great post. I commend you, and your comment makers, for giving blert's words as much thought as you did. Sadly, I feel that many people who call themselves "Christian" would define a "Christian" as someone who believes what they believe. With not much wiggle room for new information or thought. This is how i interpreted blerts comments. Of course, I may also be reflecting my own experiences /prejudices, which is one of the reasons I felt I learned something from your post.
ReplyDelete